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	<title>Comments on: Options on early stage companies</title>
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	<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/</link>
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		<title>By: The most important question to ask before taking seed money &#124; Igniting Startups - nPost</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-4551</link>
		<dc:creator>The most important question to ask before taking seed money &#124; Igniting Startups - nPost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdixon.org/?p=259#comment-4551</guid>
		<description>[...] deals with the intention of actually making money on those investments, instead of just looking for options on companies in which they can invest “real money.”  In the meantime, however, a lot of young [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] deals with the intention of actually making money on those investments, instead of just looking for options on companies in which they can invest “real money.”  In the meantime, however, a lot of young [...]</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-1742</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdixon.org/?p=259#comment-1742</guid>
		<description>Reid - yes, you are right.  Thanks.  My point was more about economics/finance than taxes but thanks for correcting me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reid &#8211; yes, you are right.  Thanks.  My point was more about economics/finance than taxes but thanks for correcting me.</p>
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		<title>By: Reid Curley</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-1739</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid Curley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdixon.org/?p=259#comment-1739</guid>
		<description>Meant to say &quot;It is true that there is no tax payable upon grant as there would be with stock&quot; in the second to last paragraph.  Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meant to say &#8220;It is true that there is no tax payable upon grant as there would be with stock&#8221; in the second to last paragraph.  Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Reid Curley</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-1738</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid Curley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdixon.org/?p=259#comment-1738</guid>
		<description>&quot;This is good news for start up employees, directors, and advisors who are awarded stock options.  Their options are economically as valuable as stock but have better tax treatment.&quot;

Chris, this is not necessariiy the case.  Non-employee Directors and advisors are not generally eligible for ISOs, so they get non-quals.  When non-quals are exercised, ordinary income tax is due on the gain.  This is true regardless of whether the underlying stock is sold, so you may well have taxes payable on unrealized income.  This is a major disadvantage to non-quals.  Gains after the date of exercise are eligible for capital gains treatment going forward assuming you meet the holding period requirements.  

It is true that there is no tax payable upon the grant of the stock.  In a true raw startup though, the common stock often has so little value that you may be  better off getting the stock and paying the nominal amount of tax.  Obviously, that is not the case in later stage companies.

Don&#039;t even get me started on how AMT destroys the supposed tax advantages of ISOs for many people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is good news for start up employees, directors, and advisors who are awarded stock options.  Their options are economically as valuable as stock but have better tax treatment.&#8221;</p>
<p>Chris, this is not necessariiy the case.  Non-employee Directors and advisors are not generally eligible for ISOs, so they get non-quals.  When non-quals are exercised, ordinary income tax is due on the gain.  This is true regardless of whether the underlying stock is sold, so you may well have taxes payable on unrealized income.  This is a major disadvantage to non-quals.  Gains after the date of exercise are eligible for capital gains treatment going forward assuming you meet the holding period requirements.  </p>
<p>It is true that there is no tax payable upon the grant of the stock.  In a true raw startup though, the common stock often has so little value that you may be  better off getting the stock and paying the nominal amount of tax.  Obviously, that is not the case in later stage companies.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t even get me started on how AMT destroys the supposed tax advantages of ISOs for many people.</p>
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		<title>By: Options on early stage companies &#124; Igniting Startups - nPost</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-1583</link>
		<dc:creator>Options on early stage companies &#124; Igniting Startups - nPost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdixon.org/?p=259#comment-1583</guid>
		<description>[...] From cdixon.org [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] From cdixon.org [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Battle</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-1372</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Battle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdixon.org/?p=259#comment-1372</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t mean to imply there was zero volatility in my above comment, just no historical volatility (but as you stated, independent of modeling or pricing methodology, vol is incredibly high).

And yes, the tax benefits of taking options at the onset should more than offset the strike price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to imply there was zero volatility in my above comment, just no historical volatility (but as you stated, independent of modeling or pricing methodology, vol is incredibly high).</p>
<p>And yes, the tax benefits of taking options at the onset should more than offset the strike price.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Battle</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-1370</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Battle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdixon.org/?p=259#comment-1370</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a simple explanation of why employee stock options are equivalent to equity at the onset, independent of the distribution model used for the volatility possible exits.  For all companies, a share of equity represents a call option the pro-rata future earning of the company in perpetuity discounted back to today.  At day zero for a company, the equity and options are effectively worth the same as they both capture the same value with zero historical volatility.  Obviously, I&#039;m ignoring the strike by assuming it is comparably tiny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a simple explanation of why employee stock options are equivalent to equity at the onset, independent of the distribution model used for the volatility possible exits.  For all companies, a share of equity represents a call option the pro-rata future earning of the company in perpetuity discounted back to today.  At day zero for a company, the equity and options are effectively worth the same as they both capture the same value with zero historical volatility.  Obviously, I&#8217;m ignoring the strike by assuming it is comparably tiny.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-1278</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdixon.org/?p=259#comment-1278</guid>
		<description>Voottoo Chief - I think that would be perfectly acceptable, that is if they can:  in most cases however I think if the investor is dragging their heels they probably wouldn&#039;t pay much for such an option.

When faced with first time entrepreneurs, we always are upfront about pointing out that as investors - all other things being equal (which isn&#039;t always the case admittedly) - it is in our interests to wait for the reasons Chris points out above.  Honesty is the best policy.  However (good) investors know this strategy also has risks (ie the option isn&#039;t completely free):  the entrepreneur could find another investor, the opportunity might fade and/or execution risk become higher by delaying, etc.  

As an investor, if you truly believe in the team and the opportunity, you will want to &#039;move the ball down the field&#039; promptly and your interests quickly become aligned with the founder(s).  It&#039;s not a science but an art as to how quickly or slowly to move and is entirely dependent on the particular dynamics of the deal and company in question.

Again, imo the key is to be upfront and transparent about this with the founder and keep the dialog open at all times.  Doing otherwise is not only cynical but ultimately bad business: in-the-money options that you let expire worthless are just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voottoo Chief &#8211; I think that would be perfectly acceptable, that is if they can:  in most cases however I think if the investor is dragging their heels they probably wouldn&#8217;t pay much for such an option.</p>
<p>When faced with first time entrepreneurs, we always are upfront about pointing out that as investors &#8211; all other things being equal (which isn&#8217;t always the case admittedly) &#8211; it is in our interests to wait for the reasons Chris points out above.  Honesty is the best policy.  However (good) investors know this strategy also has risks (ie the option isn&#8217;t completely free):  the entrepreneur could find another investor, the opportunity might fade and/or execution risk become higher by delaying, etc.  </p>
<p>As an investor, if you truly believe in the team and the opportunity, you will want to &#8216;move the ball down the field&#8217; promptly and your interests quickly become aligned with the founder(s).  It&#8217;s not a science but an art as to how quickly or slowly to move and is entirely dependent on the particular dynamics of the deal and company in question.</p>
<p>Again, imo the key is to be upfront and transparent about this with the founder and keep the dialog open at all times.  Doing otherwise is not only cynical but ultimately bad business: in-the-money options that you let expire worthless are just that.</p>
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		<title>By: Voottoo Chief</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-1265</link>
		<dc:creator>Voottoo Chief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdixon.org/?p=259#comment-1265</guid>
		<description>When an investor asks an entrepreneur to come back in 3 months because they found the idea to be great, the entrepreneur should sell the investor an option to delay their decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When an investor asks an entrepreneur to come back in 3 months because they found the idea to be great, the entrepreneur should sell the investor an option to delay their decision.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2009/08/18/options-on-early-stage-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-1250</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cdixon.org/?p=259#comment-1250</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments. I realize my treatment of options pricing here is extremely simplistic.  I was just trying to get the gist across to entrepreneurs who don&#039;t have a background in finance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments. I realize my treatment of options pricing here is extremely simplistic.  I was just trying to get the gist across to entrepreneurs who don&#8217;t have a background in finance.</p>
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