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	<title>Comments on: Collective knowledge systems</title>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Stray &#187; A computational journalism reading list</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-12104</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Stray &#187; A computational journalism reading list</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2011 02:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-12104</guid>
		<description>[...] Shirky in his classic essay, &#8220;A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy.&#8221; It&#8217;s also a &#8220;collective knowledge system&#8221; as articulated by Chris [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Shirky in his classic essay, &#8220;A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy.&#8221; It&#8217;s also a &#8220;collective knowledge system&#8221; as articulated by Chris [...]</p>
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		<title>By: CrowdSourcing &#8211; Delicious KB Item - Maven Services</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-10992</link>
		<dc:creator>CrowdSourcing &#8211; Delicious KB Item - Maven Services</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2010 00:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-10992</guid>
		<description>[...] Collective knowledge systems cdixon.org * chris dixon-s blog [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Collective knowledge systems cdixon.org * chris dixon-s blog [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Notes from the RWW Real-Time Web Summit &#124; outside.in blog</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-9306</link>
		<dc:creator>Notes from the RWW Real-Time Web Summit &#124; outside.in blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-9306</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;crowdsourced&#8221; was pejorative. He also mentioned a blog post by Chris Dixon (definitely this one) that had posited that the most important startups in the past decade had been based on collective [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;crowdsourced&#8221; was pejorative. He also mentioned a blog post by Chris Dixon (definitely this one) that had posited that the most important startups in the past decade had been based on collective [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Internet Strategy for News Organisations &#187; Session 4: Software for communities</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-9177</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet Strategy for News Organisations &#187; Session 4: Software for communities</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 17:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-9177</guid>
		<description>[...] Collective Knowledge Systems, Chris Dixon [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Collective Knowledge Systems, Chris Dixon [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Internet Strategy for News Organisations &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Course Syllabus</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-8893</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet Strategy for News Organisations &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Course Syllabus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 07:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-8893</guid>
		<description>[...] Collective Knowledge Systems, Chris Dixon [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Collective Knowledge Systems, Chris Dixon [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Can Search Discover the Spark of Life? &#187; Victus Spiritus</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-6641</link>
		<dc:creator>Can Search Discover the Spark of Life? &#187; Victus Spiritus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-6641</guid>
		<description>[...] Collective knowledge systems (cdixon.org) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Collective knowledge systems (cdixon.org) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Information Overload + Architecture &#124; Architecture and Anthropology</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-6395</link>
		<dc:creator>Information Overload + Architecture &#124; Architecture and Anthropology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-6395</guid>
		<description>[...] Collective knowledge systems (cdixon.org) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Collective knowledge systems (cdixon.org) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: What is Goldman Sachs? &#171; Social Leverage</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-6300</link>
		<dc:creator>What is Goldman Sachs? &#171; Social Leverage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-6300</guid>
		<description>[...] my opinion, Goldman is a dangerous, closed &#8216;Collective Knowledge System&#8216; . Having a closed Collective Knowledge System is cool, but I have long not trusted what it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] my opinion, Goldman is a dangerous, closed &#8216;Collective Knowledge System&#8216; . Having a closed Collective Knowledge System is cool, but I have long not trusted what it [...]</p>
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		<title>By: idogreen</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-6203</link>
		<dc:creator>idogreen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 04:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-6203</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the good post.&lt;br&gt;I think this type of innovation will start bottom-up by nature (e.g. start ups and informally). In big/lazy/heavy organization people/developers/and other Phds like to work on problems that are &#039;pure&#039; and not tie to the surface of the real world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the good post.<br />I think this type of innovation will start bottom-up by nature (e.g. start ups and informally). In big/lazy/heavy organization people/developers/and other Phds like to work on problems that are &#39;pure&#39; and not tie to the surface of the real world.</p>
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		<title>By: David Semeria</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5993</link>
		<dc:creator>David Semeria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5993</guid>
		<description>Good points. I argued for similar &quot;low tech&quot; innovations in UI &amp; UX design in a reply below.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The goal is to obtain (at least some) human curation with the lowest possible friction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points. I argued for similar &#8220;low tech&#8221; innovations in UI &#038; UX design in a reply below.</p>
<p>The goal is to obtain (at least some) human curation with the lowest possible friction.</p>
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		<title>By: ronald</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5989</link>
		<dc:creator>ronald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5989</guid>
		<description>I think the problem has deeper roots. Our Information theory is rooted in physics.  Try to TEACH any system the meaning of &quot;all&quot; and it&#039;s usage (knowledge) after you have a system which can do that. Can it learn Trust?&lt;br&gt;We have no agreed upon def for this context of what Information is and how it can be tested.  Same goes for Knowledge and ... &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What is learning? How do we test it?  Just memorization? In/ex-cludes  building of abstractions (see above)?  How important is learning, or is just following some obscure rules,with no understanding (what&#039;s that)  good enough?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Or for the CS challenged, build a massive parallel system without locks, you will need that for &quot;all&quot;.   For a little more advancement let it do it&#039;s own decomposition, which means it should be able to LEARN math. If you think we are born with some magical math algorithm, please explain one-two-many cultures.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;After that we can talk about Information and Intelligence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the problem has deeper roots. Our Information theory is rooted in physics.  Try to TEACH any system the meaning of &#8220;all&#8221; and it&#39;s usage (knowledge) after you have a system which can do that. Can it learn Trust?<br />We have no agreed upon def for this context of what Information is and how it can be tested.  Same goes for Knowledge and &#8230; </p>
<p>What is learning? How do we test it?  Just memorization? In/ex-cludes  building of abstractions (see above)?  How important is learning, or is just following some obscure rules,with no understanding (what&#39;s that)  good enough?</p>
<p>Or for the CS challenged, build a massive parallel system without locks, you will need that for &#8220;all&#8221;.   For a little more advancement let it do it&#39;s own decomposition, which means it should be able to LEARN math. If you think we are born with some magical math algorithm, please explain one-two-many cultures.</p>
<p>After that we can talk about Information and Intelligence.</p>
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		<title>By: Entropy and the Future of the Web &#171; Collective Web</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5995</link>
		<dc:creator>Entropy and the Future of the Web &#171; Collective Web</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5995</guid>
		<description>[...] by this post of Chris Dixon, I summarized my thoughts on the future of the web in a single tweet like this: The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by this post of Chris Dixon, I summarized my thoughts on the future of the web in a single tweet like this: The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Collective knowledge systems &#124; Igniting Startups - nPost</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5988</link>
		<dc:creator>Collective knowledge systems &#124; Igniting Startups - nPost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5988</guid>
		<description>[...] From cdixon.org [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] From cdixon.org [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Shynar</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5986</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Shynar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5986</guid>
		<description>I believe we&#039;ll see a conversion of the ex-ante and ex-post methods as time goes on. One interesting way this can happen is by user-approved automatic structuring. This saves the user the time of manually tagging data and is, in a way, moving from an essay-based exam to a multiple-choice one. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For example, in my blog I use an extension called Zemanta, which offers various kinds of automatic linking and tagging. I accept less than %10 of what it offers me, but those %10 add more structure to my blog posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe we&#39;ll see a conversion of the ex-ante and ex-post methods as time goes on. One interesting way this can happen is by user-approved automatic structuring. This saves the user the time of manually tagging data and is, in a way, moving from an essay-based exam to a multiple-choice one. </p>
<p>For example, in my blog I use an extension called Zemanta, which offers various kinds of automatic linking and tagging. I accept less than %10 of what it offers me, but those %10 add more structure to my blog posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Frances</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5983</link>
		<dc:creator>Frances</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5983</guid>
		<description>I shall tag my post here as &lt;great&gt;, &lt;informative&gt; and &lt;racist&gt;.&lt;br&gt;Do you think I&#039;m right? If you reply, it probably means you agree since this post has a reply.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To rephrase: I hope that CS steers as far and clear of today&#039;s social sciences as possible. The idea that my categorizations carry some universal meaning (or any meaning for that matter) is entirely false. You might say, we&#039;ll mod what you say by your reputation (determined by pagerank / number of tweets / whatever). But this doesn&#039;t solve anything apart from identifying whether my arbitrary categorization is shared by (or is amusing to) a wide variety of folks. Complex scenarios that will inevitably arise (cross-referencing, context, circularity, etc etc) shall strip it of any remaining meaning.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ex-ante, in this classification, I believe, is the only promising path. Unless you have a full, reliable, and conclusive model of &quot;me&quot;, you will run into falsehoods that will make your analysis an easy target for the first buddying statistician.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Disclosure 1: I&#039;m a social scientist, with an interest and some background in CS.&lt;br&gt;Disclosure 2: &lt;Partially-a-lie&gt; Disclosure 1 &lt;/Partially-a-lie&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shall tag my post here as &lt;great&gt;, &lt;informative&gt; and &lt;racist&gt;.<br />Do you think I&#39;m right? If you reply, it probably means you agree since this post has a reply.</p>
<p>To rephrase: I hope that CS steers as far and clear of today&#39;s social sciences as possible. The idea that my categorizations carry some universal meaning (or any meaning for that matter) is entirely false. You might say, we&#39;ll mod what you say by your reputation (determined by pagerank / number of tweets / whatever). But this doesn&#39;t solve anything apart from identifying whether my arbitrary categorization is shared by (or is amusing to) a wide variety of folks. Complex scenarios that will inevitably arise (cross-referencing, context, circularity, etc etc) shall strip it of any remaining meaning.</p>
<p>Ex-ante, in this classification, I believe, is the only promising path. Unless you have a full, reliable, and conclusive model of &#8220;me&#8221;, you will run into falsehoods that will make your analysis an easy target for the first buddying statistician.</p>
<p>Disclosure 1: I&#39;m a social scientist, with an interest and some background in CS.<br />Disclosure 2: &lt;Partially-a-lie&gt; Disclosure 1 &lt;/Partially-a-lie&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Geller</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5969</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Geller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5969</guid>
		<description>Great post, another example of successful collective knowledge systems is markets, in particular stock markets, where users pursue their own self-directed interests and in the process create useful shared data, i.e., company valuations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, another example of successful collective knowledge systems is markets, in particular stock markets, where users pursue their own self-directed interests and in the process create useful shared data, i.e., company valuations.</p>
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		<title>By: glen_NIXTY</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5968</link>
		<dc:creator>glen_NIXTY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5968</guid>
		<description>Love the post. A couple of quick thoughts. I think the emphasis on organizing the knowledge in the process of creating the knowledge is key. Second, you highlight the need for researchers to focus on the social science edge of this. I couldn&#039;t agree more and just want to highlight that the field of social psychology is ripe with research that I think is quite applicable to organizing and incentivizing this type of behavior. We (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nixty.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.nixty.com&lt;/a&gt;) are actively working on a educational collective knowledge system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the post. A couple of quick thoughts. I think the emphasis on organizing the knowledge in the process of creating the knowledge is key. Second, you highlight the need for researchers to focus on the social science edge of this. I couldn&#39;t agree more and just want to highlight that the field of social psychology is ripe with research that I think is quite applicable to organizing and incentivizing this type of behavior. We (<a href="http://www.nixty.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.nixty.com</a>) are actively working on a educational collective knowledge system.</p>
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		<title>By: Cody Brown</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-11287</link>
		<dc:creator>Cody Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-11287</guid>
		<description>Hey Chris - Have you read Wealth of Networks by Yochai Benkler?

Along with Clay Shirky and Duncan Watts - he is a pioneer in this field. The Wealth of Networks is the closest thing I have to a bible.  

http://www.amazon.com/Wealth-Networks-Production-Transforms-Markets/dp/0300110561</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Chris &#8211; Have you read Wealth of Networks by Yochai Benkler?</p>
<p>Along with Clay Shirky and Duncan Watts &#8211; he is a pioneer in this field. The Wealth of Networks is the closest thing I have to a bible.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Wealth-Networks-Production-Transforms-Markets/dp/0300110561" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Wealth-Networks-Production-Transforms-Markets/dp/0300110561</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5954</link>
		<dc:creator>Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5954</guid>
		<description>Yes, except that when the information leaks, terrorists would know *what&lt;br&gt;we&#039;re looking for*, which is like putting up big neon signs around the Death&lt;br&gt;Star&#039;s secret weakness.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(Which is why, incidentally, racial profiling at airports is a bad idea.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, except that when the information leaks, terrorists would know *what<br />we&#39;re looking for*, which is like putting up big neon signs around the Death<br />Star&#39;s secret weakness.</p>
<p>(Which is why, incidentally, racial profiling at airports is a bad idea.)</p>
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		<title>By: chris dixon</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5953</link>
		<dc:creator>chris dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 17:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5953</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t it depend on the information?  If the information is a bunch of clues that together suggest a terrorist plot, isn&#039;t it better to err on the side of sharing (and disclosing) than undersharing and keeping it secret?  Seems like with counter-terrorism where you are basically on defense all the time sharing is better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#39;t it depend on the information?  If the information is a bunch of clues that together suggest a terrorist plot, isn&#39;t it better to err on the side of sharing (and disclosing) than undersharing and keeping it secret?  Seems like with counter-terrorism where you are basically on defense all the time sharing is better.</p>
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		<title>By: Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5952</link>
		<dc:creator>Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5952</guid>
		<description>While your general point about collective knowledge systems is absolutely right, I shudder at the thought of a collective Facebook/Yammer/Wikipedia (BlueKiwi?) for the US intelligence community.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is a saying among intelligence operatives that the dissemination of information is the _square_ of the number of people who know that piece of operation. The United States Intelligence Community includes 16 agencies, who together employ tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people. Let&#039;s guesstimate that out of these 5 to 10 thousand have a high security clearance. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Even if this Intelligence Facebook is open only to them, even assuming total imperviousness to &quot;hard&quot; hacking attacks and zero malfeasant users, it will be a matter of weeks until a social engineering hack or just simple negligence ends up with most of its contents posted on Wikileaks or worse (the Al Qaeda Yammer?). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The worst part is, I am certain that such a collective intelligence system would, if it were feasible to keep it safe, reap tremendous benefits in fighting terrorism. Until it is compromised with disastrous consequences. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sometimes -- sometimes -- closed is better than open.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While your general point about collective knowledge systems is absolutely right, I shudder at the thought of a collective Facebook/Yammer/Wikipedia (BlueKiwi?) for the US intelligence community.</p>
<p>There is a saying among intelligence operatives that the dissemination of information is the _square_ of the number of people who know that piece of operation. The United States Intelligence Community includes 16 agencies, who together employ tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people. Let&#39;s guesstimate that out of these 5 to 10 thousand have a high security clearance. </p>
<p>Even if this Intelligence Facebook is open only to them, even assuming total imperviousness to &#8220;hard&#8221; hacking attacks and zero malfeasant users, it will be a matter of weeks until a social engineering hack or just simple negligence ends up with most of its contents posted on Wikileaks or worse (the Al Qaeda Yammer?). </p>
<p>The worst part is, I am certain that such a collective intelligence system would, if it were feasible to keep it safe, reap tremendous benefits in fighting terrorism. Until it is compromised with disastrous consequences. </p>
<p>Sometimes &#8212; sometimes &#8212; closed is better than open.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard Lindzon &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What is Goldman Sachs?</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5956</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Lindzon &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What is Goldman Sachs?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5956</guid>
		<description>[...] my opinion, Goldman is a dangerous, closed &#8216;Collective Knowledge System&#8216; . Having a closed Collective Knowledge System is cool, but I have long not trusted what it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] my opinion, Goldman is a dangerous, closed &#8216;Collective Knowledge System&#8216; . Having a closed Collective Knowledge System is cool, but I have long not trusted what it [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Curtis Lassam &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weekend Top 5 - January 18, 2010</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5951</link>
		<dc:creator>Curtis Lassam &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weekend Top 5 - January 18, 2010</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5951</guid>
		<description>[...] Dixon explores the popularity of Collective Knowledge Systems. This is something I&#8217;m interested in. So [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dixon explores the popularity of Collective Knowledge Systems. This is something I&#8217;m interested in. So [...]</p>
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		<title>By: davidkpark</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5950</link>
		<dc:creator>davidkpark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 05:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5950</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s some interesting overlap between what you call &quot;collective knowledge systems&quot; and what Yochai Benkler calls &quot;new open source economics.&quot; Benkler gives a nice overview on TED - &lt;a href=&quot;http://bit.ly/JWPe6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://bit.ly/JWPe6&lt;/a&gt;. He talks about how Seti@Home far outpaces (almost doubles) IBM Gene Blue and NEC supercompter,  Open Source software has captured 70% of the web backend, etc.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As a response to David Semeria, I would frame the collective knowledge system, not as two separate spaces, but as an interaction between user generated data (collective) and a technical algorithm (knowledge) to structure that data in a meaningful way. For example, as Benkler notes, Google is so useful because it has a collective (millions of web designers creating pages with tags and links) and knowledge (a kick-ass ranking algorithm). Wikipedia can be thought of the same way - a collective (millions of people entering words) and knowledge (a kick-ass algorithm - the brain - that can structure words in a meaningful way).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That was an interesting comment about how computer scientists should model themselves after social scientists such as economists and sociologists. As a professor in the social sciences (and an entrepreneur who is trying to leverage the open source framework), I would replace economists with biologists. I think much of the work you&#039;re talking is being done by a variety of disciplines (but not by economists), with the main intellectual anchor being networks (for example you mention Duncan Watts).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As a side note, I was speaking with Robert Frank, the Cornell economist, and he has an interesting prediction about who economists in 100 years will say was the most influential. It won&#039;t be Smith, Keynes, Milton, etc. but Darwin. So maybe economists will embrace biologists but not soon.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Again, a fascinating post.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;PS I&#039;m not sure if you knew, but the CIA has been using an internal Wiki to share knowledge and foster collaboration - &lt;a href=&quot;http://bit.ly/6nMe4z&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://bit.ly/6nMe4z&lt;/a&gt;. From what I&#039;ve heard, it&#039;s been pretty successful. I&#039;m not sure if they&#039;re taking the next step and harnessing (or mining) that information via some algorithm to find patterns, connections, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#39;s some interesting overlap between what you call &#8220;collective knowledge systems&#8221; and what Yochai Benkler calls &#8220;new open source economics.&#8221; Benkler gives a nice overview on TED &#8211; <a href="http://bit.ly/JWPe6" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/JWPe6</a>. He talks about how Seti@Home far outpaces (almost doubles) IBM Gene Blue and NEC supercompter,  Open Source software has captured 70% of the web backend, etc.</p>
<p>As a response to David Semeria, I would frame the collective knowledge system, not as two separate spaces, but as an interaction between user generated data (collective) and a technical algorithm (knowledge) to structure that data in a meaningful way. For example, as Benkler notes, Google is so useful because it has a collective (millions of web designers creating pages with tags and links) and knowledge (a kick-ass ranking algorithm). Wikipedia can be thought of the same way &#8211; a collective (millions of people entering words) and knowledge (a kick-ass algorithm &#8211; the brain &#8211; that can structure words in a meaningful way).</p>
<p>That was an interesting comment about how computer scientists should model themselves after social scientists such as economists and sociologists. As a professor in the social sciences (and an entrepreneur who is trying to leverage the open source framework), I would replace economists with biologists. I think much of the work you&#39;re talking is being done by a variety of disciplines (but not by economists), with the main intellectual anchor being networks (for example you mention Duncan Watts).</p>
<p>As a side note, I was speaking with Robert Frank, the Cornell economist, and he has an interesting prediction about who economists in 100 years will say was the most influential. It won&#39;t be Smith, Keynes, Milton, etc. but Darwin. So maybe economists will embrace biologists but not soon.</p>
<p>Again, a fascinating post.</p>
<p>PS I&#39;m not sure if you knew, but the CIA has been using an internal Wiki to share knowledge and foster collaboration &#8211; <a href="http://bit.ly/6nMe4z" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/6nMe4z</a>. From what I&#39;ve heard, it&#39;s been pretty successful. I&#39;m not sure if they&#39;re taking the next step and harnessing (or mining) that information via some algorithm to find patterns, connections, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: William Carleton</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-11286</link>
		<dc:creator>William Carleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 04:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-11286</guid>
		<description>Chris, keep &#039;em coming! I love the way you synthesize disparate ways of thinking that most folks compartmentalize. Btw, and it may be a small example of the kind of thing you are talking about, but some Cornell CS profs (and the Dean of that school is trying to push CS as an &quot;information science&quot; major in the Arts school) are doing some fun things with flickr data. http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~crandall/photomap/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, keep &#8216;em coming! I love the way you synthesize disparate ways of thinking that most folks compartmentalize. Btw, and it may be a small example of the kind of thing you are talking about, but some Cornell CS profs (and the Dean of that school is trying to push CS as an &#8220;information science&#8221; major in the Arts school) are doing some fun things with flickr data. <a href="http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~crandall/photomap/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~crandall/photomap/</a></p>
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		<title>By: chris dixon</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5947</link>
		<dc:creator>chris dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5947</guid>
		<description>I totally agree. I guess it just takes organizations like that a long time to appreciate the positive benefits since they aren&#039;t as directly measurable as, say, installing a new accounting system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree. I guess it just takes organizations like that a long time to appreciate the positive benefits since they aren&#39;t as directly measurable as, say, installing a new accounting system.</p>
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		<title>By: chris dixon</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5946</link>
		<dc:creator>chris dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5946</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Benjamin.  I think Lanier is talking about bad collective knowledge systems.  Wikipedia for example doesn&#039;t &quot;average&quot; people&#039;s opinions.  It works because people with expertise tend to self-select and edit things they know about.  Other systems use explicit reputation systems and other mechanisms (pagerank).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Benjamin.  I think Lanier is talking about bad collective knowledge systems.  Wikipedia for example doesn&#39;t &#8220;average&#8221; people&#39;s opinions.  It works because people with expertise tend to self-select and edit things they know about.  Other systems use explicit reputation systems and other mechanisms (pagerank).</p>
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		<title>By: John Stepper</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5945</link>
		<dc:creator>John Stepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5945</guid>
		<description>I agree with you that much more can and should be done to research the questions you posed. And, I&#039;d also like to some of that rigor applied to implementation.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m struck by how many mid- to large-sized companies barely make use of what&#039;s already available. It seems like only a small fraction of companies I&#039;m familiar with make effective use of search, forums, social equity systems, or expert location tools. There are notable exceptions - typically the same oft-cited ones in books on social media - but there remains a huge opportunity for us to greatly improve productivity implementing what we already have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you that much more can and should be done to research the questions you posed. And, I&#39;d also like to some of that rigor applied to implementation.</p>
<p>I&#39;m struck by how many mid- to large-sized companies barely make use of what&#39;s already available. It seems like only a small fraction of companies I&#39;m familiar with make effective use of search, forums, social equity systems, or expert location tools. There are notable exceptions &#8211; typically the same oft-cited ones in books on social media &#8211; but there remains a huge opportunity for us to greatly improve productivity implementing what we already have.</p>
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		<title>By: Knowtu &#187; links for 2010-01-17</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5949</link>
		<dc:creator>Knowtu &#187; links for 2010-01-17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5949</guid>
		<description>[...] Collective knowledge systems cdixon.org – chris dixon&#039;s blog (tags: knowledge collaboration) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Collective knowledge systems cdixon.org – chris dixon&#39;s blog (tags: knowledge collaboration) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin </title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5944</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 00:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5944</guid>
		<description>Great post, a few remarks.&lt;br&gt;Collective knowledge systems are (should) be more about Intelligence Augmentation than about Artificial Intelligence, a point Pattie Maes has repeatedly made.&lt;br&gt;For a provoking minority view on collective knowledge system and web 2.0 you should read the recent book by Jaron Lanier, &quot;You Are Not A Gadget&quot;.&lt;br&gt;Or read his edge article entitled Digital Maoism: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/lanier06/lanier06_index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/lanier06/lanier...&lt;/a&gt; &lt;br&gt;Btw I think his criticism especially applies to meta-sites that aggregate contributions by anonymous users, whereas hunch is trying to build a truly smart collective by putting great value on and connecting the persons contributing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, a few remarks.<br />Collective knowledge systems are (should) be more about Intelligence Augmentation than about Artificial Intelligence, a point Pattie Maes has repeatedly made.<br />For a provoking minority view on collective knowledge system and web 2.0 you should read the recent book by Jaron Lanier, &#8220;You Are Not A Gadget&#8221;.<br />Or read his edge article entitled Digital Maoism: <a href="http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/lanier06/lanier06_index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/lanier06/lanier&#8230;</a> <br />Btw I think his criticism especially applies to meta-sites that aggregate contributions by anonymous users, whereas hunch is trying to build a truly smart collective by putting great value on and connecting the persons contributing.</p>
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		<title>By: David Semeria</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5940</link>
		<dc:creator>David Semeria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 00:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5940</guid>
		<description>Thanks Mark, even it wasn&#039;t really a clarification of Chris&#039;  post - it&#039;s just a simple way of categorizing the space.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Debates on machine learning always tend to veer off into philosophical abstractions - what does mean mean? etc - and so it&#039;s always important to stay practical (I&#039;m not referring to you here, just in general).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I really liked Caterina Fake&#039;s post on a similar theme from a few days back. I think we both agree that, at least in the short term, progress will come from the innovative application of existing and not particularly ground-breaking techniques.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In other words, advances in UI &amp; UX design which reduce the friction of adding semantic sugar on input. That kind thing: simple tech, but still hard to get right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mark, even it wasn&#39;t really a clarification of Chris&#39;  post &#8211; it&#39;s just a simple way of categorizing the space.</p>
<p>Debates on machine learning always tend to veer off into philosophical abstractions &#8211; what does mean mean? etc &#8211; and so it&#39;s always important to stay practical (I&#39;m not referring to you here, just in general).</p>
<p>I really liked Caterina Fake&#39;s post on a similar theme from a few days back. I think we both agree that, at least in the short term, progress will come from the innovative application of existing and not particularly ground-breaking techniques.</p>
<p>In other words, advances in UI &#038; UX design which reduce the friction of adding semantic sugar on input. That kind thing: simple tech, but still hard to get right.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Essel</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5939</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Essel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5939</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarification David. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Resources will funnel towards increased research of machine learning without always requiring supervision, as long as there&#039;s a stepping stone or ladder that gives intermediate results (payoffs/benefits). I just don&#039;t know if there are rungs between where we&#039;re at now, and creating self learning systems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification David. </p>
<p>Resources will funnel towards increased research of machine learning without always requiring supervision, as long as there&#39;s a stepping stone or ladder that gives intermediate results (payoffs/benefits). I just don&#39;t know if there are rungs between where we&#39;re at now, and creating self learning systems.</p>
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		<title>By: chris dixon</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5938</link>
		<dc:creator>chris dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5938</guid>
		<description>Excellent way to put it and agree systems with at least some ex-ante are the most promising in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent way to put it and agree systems with at least some ex-ante are the most promising in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: jazzmann91</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5937</link>
		<dc:creator>jazzmann91</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 22:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5937</guid>
		<description>Thanks for writing on this topic rather than business.  :-)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m research/designing one of these for opinion and debate, it&#039;s also going to be a social game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for writing on this topic rather than business.  <img src='http://cdixon.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#39;m research/designing one of these for opinion and debate, it&#39;s also going to be a social game.</p>
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		<title>By: David Semeria</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5936</link>
		<dc:creator>David Semeria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 22:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5936</guid>
		<description>You can break the space into two main groups: ex-ante and ex-post.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ex-post techniques try to create order from disorder (Google). Ex ante systems (at a stretch Wikipedia) try to provide order beforehand (in reality, Wikipedia pages are semantically messy, contain large blocks of untagged text, and lack consistency between themselves).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ex-ante comes with a significant user burden - who wants to semantically tag everything they write/do? - but, like all human curation methods, is good at reducing ambiguity. Ex-post is generally painless for the user, but shifts all the semantic burden onto machines (something they&#039;re not very good at, and perhaps never will be).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In summary, I would bet on ex-ante systems showing the most future promise...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can break the space into two main groups: ex-ante and ex-post.</p>
<p>Ex-post techniques try to create order from disorder (Google). Ex ante systems (at a stretch Wikipedia) try to provide order beforehand (in reality, Wikipedia pages are semantically messy, contain large blocks of untagged text, and lack consistency between themselves).</p>
<p>Ex-ante comes with a significant user burden &#8211; who wants to semantically tag everything they write/do? &#8211; but, like all human curation methods, is good at reducing ambiguity. Ex-post is generally painless for the user, but shifts all the semantic burden onto machines (something they&#39;re not very good at, and perhaps never will be).</p>
<p>In summary, I would bet on ex-ante systems showing the most future promise&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Marshall</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-11285</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 22:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-11285</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think Google is as ex-post as you imply...they really built the search engine on link structure that is/was manually defined by people creating web pages...in many ways it&#039;s not much different than what wikipedia does, it&#039;s just that one is all contained within on domain and the other spans the internet as a whole...

In any case, I would say that ex-post is actually still the wave of the future...users just don&#039;t want to &#039;learn&#039; something for others benefits...to me the key is in the input systems (so that you can get ex-ante without the user nec. knowing that&#039;s what they are doing).

As an aside, I think Twitter is a perfect example of ex-post right now...thanks to their API tons of &#039;collective intelligence&#039; systems are being attempted on top of the massive (and fairly unstructured) data...(disclaimer: my own project http://wow.ly is slowly, and methodically, building towards being a collective knowledge system for social data)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Google is as ex-post as you imply&#8230;they really built the search engine on link structure that is/was manually defined by people creating web pages&#8230;in many ways it&#8217;s not much different than what wikipedia does, it&#8217;s just that one is all contained within on domain and the other spans the internet as a whole&#8230;</p>
<p>In any case, I would say that ex-post is actually still the wave of the future&#8230;users just don&#8217;t want to &#8216;learn&#8217; something for others benefits&#8230;to me the key is in the input systems (so that you can get ex-ante without the user nec. knowing that&#8217;s what they are doing).</p>
<p>As an aside, I think Twitter is a perfect example of ex-post right now&#8230;thanks to their API tons of &#8216;collective intelligence&#8217; systems are being attempted on top of the massive (and fairly unstructured) data&#8230;(disclaimer: my own project <a href="http://wow.ly" rel="nofollow">http://wow.ly</a> is slowly, and methodically, building towards being a collective knowledge system for social data)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Essel</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-11284</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Essel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-11284</guid>
		<description>The burden of self tagging (as David distinguishes Ex-ante) is one we&#039;ll see overcome in part by game like behavior where users are rewarded (virtual currency?). 

As we funnel resources into semantic processing businesses we can expect to see improvements and algorithmic refinements based on machine learning of our languages (I&#039;m having fun doing work with Zemanta and Alchemy&#039;s API).

Hope not to offend any religious or anti-religious folks but I did a good bit of reading up on complex adaptive systems when I made an effort to understand &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.victusspiritus.com/2010/01/08/why-gods-a-hacker/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the information storage capacity of nucleic DNA last week&lt;/a&gt;. The better our computing systems can model these systems, the more capable they will become of learning without our careful guidance, or create &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_(Terminator)&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;skynet&lt;/a&gt; ;).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The burden of self tagging (as David distinguishes Ex-ante) is one we&#8217;ll see overcome in part by game like behavior where users are rewarded (virtual currency?). </p>
<p>As we funnel resources into semantic processing businesses we can expect to see improvements and algorithmic refinements based on machine learning of our languages (I&#8217;m having fun doing work with Zemanta and Alchemy&#8217;s API).</p>
<p>Hope not to offend any religious or anti-religious folks but I did a good bit of reading up on complex adaptive systems when I made an effort to understand <a href="http://www.victusspiritus.com/2010/01/08/why-gods-a-hacker/" rel="nofollow">the information storage capacity of nucleic DNA last week</a>. The better our computing systems can model these systems, the more capable they will become of learning without our careful guidance, or create <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_(Terminator)" rel="nofollow">skynet</a> <img src='http://cdixon.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Collective knowledge systems cdixon.org – chris dixon's blog -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://cdixon.org/2010/01/17/collective-knowledge-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-5935</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Collective knowledge systems cdixon.org – chris dixon's blog -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 16:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cdixon.org/?p=2580#comment-5935</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by chris dixon, nigelwalsh. nigelwalsh said: RT @cdixon: Collective knowledge systems http://bit.ly/7ryPqQ (part 1 in a series...) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by chris dixon, nigelwalsh. nigelwalsh said: RT @cdixon: Collective knowledge systems <a href="http://bit.ly/7ryPqQ" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/7ryPqQ</a> (part 1 in a series&#8230;) [...]</p>
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