Firing - Chris Dixon

Firing

Firing is awful. You can try to avoid it, but even the most selective founders make serious mistakes. Here are a few things I’ve observed about firing:

1) The good people bounce up, the bad ones bounce down. I was told this by my boss once when he was firing one of my friends. At the time, I thought this just made him feel better about himself. Over time, I’ve seen the wisdom in what he said. Some people who get fired react by fixing their weaknesses. Others spiral down.

2) Do it early. If you think you’re going to fire someone over the next six months, you probably will. Don’t wait too long. Too many founders do. It’s better for management and employees if it happens fast.

3) It’s awful. You’re in control of a situation that will meaningfully hurt someone. It’s an awful place to be. The fired person will go home and tell his/her family about how terrible it was. It was your fault. Perhaps your mismanagement caused it. Who knows. You’ll question it, and perhaps you are right to do so.

4) The other choice is firing everyone. You’re the founder of the company. If you run out of money, you’re forced to fire everyone. If you don’t fire the bad employees, you risk everyone else’s jobs. It’s an impossible situation.

5) The feeling is more likely to be mutual than you think. Most of the time, the person getting fired was already about to quit. The antipathy you feel is likely reciprocated. It’s surprising how often this happens and management doesn’t see it coming.

It would be great if startups were all about growth, hiring, and success. But the reality is that founding a company is a brutal job and lots of the pain gets passed down to employees. Creative destruction sounds nice in textbooks, but in the real world it means telling friends to go home, stop getting paid, and find new jobs.

http://twitter.com/darrenmason Darren Mason

I still remember the first two people I had to let go. It was a matter of restructuring with limited finances in order to help the company survive. Ultimately it was one of many things that helped save the company when we lost our largest client. But I still feel the impossibility of those decisions. Company vs. employees and their families is gut-wrenching. But it was the right thing to do and that company is still alive today because of those decisions.

http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

Yes, it is awful. I think I do a lot of things related to startups but the idea of having to fire people is probably the #1 thing that makes me never want to start a company again.
http://modern-products.tumblr.com/ Roee Adler

Incidentally, two of the best people I’ve ever hired came to me after being let go due to cutbacks. Letting great people go due to cutbacks is horrible, but the upside is that once they’re released into the wild they can make someone else happy
I myself have never been in this situation, I only dealt with the other side of the equation (letting underperforming people go). It’s always a bitch.

http://www.about.me/briankung Brian Kung

Have you ever fired someone and then realized it was a mistake, though? And assuming that situation is an edge case, how can we avoid it?

http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

Personally, no. I’ve only fired a few people. I think it is mostly due to my excellent cofounder Tom Pinckney who hires our people and is very good at it. We’ve fired a few people but I think most of them weren’t good fits and ended up ok.
Brian Blumel

It’s never a mistake. The amount of build-up it usually requires for you to even approach the subject of firing someone prevents you from making a mistake.

Firing someone sucks. You don’t fire people “on the bubble” in your mind. You fire people as a last resort.

Anonymous

thats not exactly how they make it sound like tho. all the “fire ppl” stuff i see are about keeping it secret and then tada, its time to fire.

http://www.justaprogrammer.net Justin Dearing

There’s a difference between keeping it secret on “F-day” and keeping it secret. Having been fired, I can say I knew it was coming, just not that day, although in retrospect, it should have been obvious that day.

I will add one other thing. The best thing to do for a fired person is to escort them out of the room and make them leave immediately. Offer to ship there stuff wherever. its disrespectful to their coworkers just given the orders to change all their passwords to have to see a “dead man walking” and letting the coworker mope around doesn’t help them. Encourage someone that wasn’t there boss to contact them outside of work and arrange for a lunch or drinks with their former coworkers.

Phillip Rhodes

I couldn’t disagree more strongly with this if I tried. The biggest part of a job is the relationships you form with your colleagues… to not even be allowed the chance to walk around, say “goodbye”, shake hands, etc., is dehumanizing and disrespectful to a ridiculous degree.

http://www.justaprogrammer.net Justin Dearing

@google-5003c2212ad32f32666c821406e7525c:disqus
your thoughts inspired me to write a two part blog series in defense of immediate escorting of a fired person. http://www.justaprogrammer.net/2012/06/23/firing-with-dignity-in-defense-of-the-immediate-escort/

http://twitter.com/sensware Luke Jian

To add to Justin’s point, I think there is a difference between being fired in a start up because you don’t fit and being fired from a big corp because of cost cutting. The latter are being kept secret and the managers basically get a “who can you dispose from your team memo”. Nobody likes that situation!

http://twitter.com/antonywu Antony Wu

As you work with that individual day to day, you get a pretty good sense of whether that person is pulling the weight or simply dragging you down with more stress. Furthermore, it is not hard for both sides to tell if chemistry exists while working together. I am not talking about romantic chemistry. I am referring to loyalty, friendship, teamwork. Can that person be someone you can count on, or will that person sabotage your operation when you are away for 15 minutes.

Employee monitoring also works too. If employee is caught stealing or sending company’s source code to his/her personal email account, firing pretty much speaks for itself.

Also in U.S., even though we have employment at will policy, firing someone requires extensive documentation and evidence collection. We also provide the employee the opportunity to improve through candid face to face discussion. There should really be no surprise at all, unless you are risking your company with discrimination lawsuits from ex-employees
http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

I haven’t. Usually when you get to the point where you actually fire someone, things are really bad and you’ve had enough experience with the person to be pretty confident it’s not working.

http://twitter.com/ScotchGuyDan Dan Bowen

If you’re doing your job firing someone should never come as a surprise to them. I’ve fired pleanty of people over the past 20 years and the vast majority are still valued contacts and many are even friends. Being proactive mitigates 90% of the issues of firing someone but that makes it no less difficult to do…particularly the first time you do it!
http://reecepacheco.com/ reecepacheco

i’ve done it 3x

one, a former college buddy. another, a friend. not easy, but as you said, the team was so much better for it

the issue i struggled with, is that those people would be good teammates, just not at the stage of the company at the time. they were better #20′s or higher, not #4′s… tough to reconcile as a founder who wants to grow a big organization

http://twitter.com/ghalib Ghalib Suleiman

How were your relationships with your friends transformed after you fired them?

http://reecepacheco.com/ reecepacheco

as Chris mentioned, it’s what was best for both sides and we all knew it
still friendly enough with both (we weren’t super close to begin with, but we i have strong mutual ties with one of them and everything’s fine)

http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

Yeah. “It’s not a good fit” is often seen as an excuse but in startups in is often true.

http://reecepacheco.com/ reecepacheco

+1

http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

That’s a great point, Reece. If the person knows this, it is good feedback for them and may help him/her to bounce back more quickly as well as be more selective in their next gig.

The founder can also use this person’s characteristics to help in assessing new candidates. What didn’t work — what does this tell us about what to avoid.

But the important thing here is that not every person is an ideal “startup team member” and there is nothing wrong with that.

http://reecepacheco.com/ reecepacheco

yup

it’s about thinking about people as people, and not just employees

treat them like people, be honest and fair. give them every opportunity to succeed, and if it’s not right, it’s not right so make a move

http://www.beingpractical.com Pravin J

great perspective chris. maybe this article puts it in another way – why hiring right team is crucial for startups. firing someone is as painful as getting fired.

http://twitter.com/Elhu Vincent Boisard

I agree that hiring the right team is crucial for statups. But your idea that ‘firing someone is as painful as getting fired’ seems really odd to me.
In one case, you took a harsh decision and you go on with your life, trying to make your company better. In the other case, you end up without a job, and that comes with a lot more issues usually. If it was done right, you might have had time to prepare an exit strategy, with already a couple of job opportunities at hand, but it’s not always that easy!

http://twitter.com/ErinChampWalker Erin Walker®

You should come to South Africa – here it takes up to a year to fire someone.
http://simplifilm.com/ Chris Johnson

I’d be very, very firm. After a warning, I’d be firm. I created agony when I let myself be talked out of firing someone only to do it 3 months later. Had I done it the first time, I would have had a replacement for three months instead of the sense of dread when emails come over. If you’ve decided to fire someone – even if it’s wrong – follow through.
http://twitter.com/melvinram melvinram

Chris, good points in the article but I take issue with your point 1. “the bad ones bounce down” isn’t exactly accurate.

I was fired from my first job. They called it “letting people go” but when you’re canned, it’s the same thing regardless of how it’s phrased. Since I was young (18), this was my first job and because I really cared about the people I worked with, I was devastated and did actually “spiral down” for a short period of time. I bounced back but if I had kids, a lot of debt or other dramatic pressures, I might not have bounced back as quickly.

The point is that even good people can bounce down and if they haven’t been smart or are unwise during that down period, it can elongate. That doesn’t make them “bad people”. It’s just semantics but the devil is in the details

http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

Good point. I like that expression more for the first (positive) half. Sometimes getting fired can actually be good for your career.

http://twitter.com/traxierdotcom traxier team

I agree; Firing is very unpleasant. And that’s probably the reason it’s not talked about much. I think the focus for founders is more on building the right team from the start in hopes of eliminating that awful task. What makes it so hard is that the core team members form strong bonds of friendship from being in the trenches. Done correctly, however, friendships can be kept intact. Open communication is the key. Sometimes, time has to pass for heads to cool before that’s possible.
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Anonymous

Something I challenge is that ‘bouncing up’ means fixing your weaknesses. A major reason people bounce up from being fired is that they recognize their weaknesses and move on to find a calling that frees them to use their strengths. Since you’re writing this for managers/founders, I think it’s worth pointing out that a good manager, and anyone who aspires to be a decent human being, takes the time to help that employee they’re firing understand what their strengths are. It’s not as simplistic as ‘good’ and ‘bad’ people.There are ‘bad’ employees but they are the minority and their flaws are usually related to personality traits and values. More likely, a bad employee is just a bad fit for the role or the business. Most people have the capacity to be great at something but the majority will never get to realize that potential. If you’re in the unenviable position to have to fire someone because they’re the wrong fit or you’ve made an error in judgement, you also have a great opportunity to help change the path of someone’s life in that moment. You can help them identify and embrace their strengths by taking the time to be thoughtful, compassionate, and forthright. And if you don’t know what their strengths are, I’d suggest you take a step back and consider how effective you’ve been as a manager.

http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

Yes, you are right. Although I have also seen situations where people were just complacent which led to laziness. They had always succeeded in school etc but were then in a position where more was expected of them. Getting fired (or in some cases warned that they weren’t performing well) was a helpful wake up call.

http://twitter.com/mediainvestors Ted Carroll

Yup. Nailed it.
http://scalable.typepad.com Brian Manning

There are two things I like to keep in mind when firing someone:

1. With very, very few exceptions the person is better off being fired. If you’re considering firing someone, and you decide not to, they have very little chance of being successful at your company in the long term. And the situation is bound to get worse. It’s better to get them off to another organization where they can shine. While it can be very painful in the short term, I’ve never seen someone get fired that didn’t end up in a better situation within a year.

2. In another role, in another company, in another culture, the person you’re firing could perform better than you or anyone else in your company. You’re not better than the person you’re firing. They’re in a place where they aren’t performing at their best. It could be the role, the industry, the company, even the management that’s keeping them from performing at the highest level. Regardless, I believe it’s always best to push that person to find a place where they can rise to the top.

http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

Good points. Thanks.

http://www.jonlim.ca/ Jon Lim

Thanks for writing this Chris.

Point 5 is the one that resonated the most with me. I think if you have an honest discussion with an employee, while you’re in the process of deciding whether or not to keep them or even before, you’ll find out very quickly how they feel about the job.

I think there are two outcomes of this discussion:

1) The employee is aloof to the whole situation and pretends they have the best job in the world. But if you really thought you had the best job in the world, why wouldn’t you be working harder?

2) The employee discloses their concerns about the job and perhaps even their general unhappiness.

Being frank and open with your employees is something I think a lot of employers tend to avoid, because it is hard, but it provides some early warning about certain employees.
http://www.justanentrepreneur.com Philip Sugar

Really appreciate the frank comments. I have done way to many of these over the last twenty years and four companies.

I see way too many cliches around the subject from people that don’t have to do it. The bounce up or bounce down is a good way to look at it. But you have to remember they are bouncing because you just knocked them on their ass.

But it is a good analogy. I watched two bounce up and become great consultants and two bounce down.

http://arnoldwaldstein.com/ awaldstein

well said.

Easy phrases about hard stuff that affects people often does a disservice to the human side of the picture.

Sure…we fire people when we have to. We treat people humanly cause that’s the right thing to do.

But, from my experience, it’s still a bitch.

http://twitter.com/robfaraj Rob Faraj

6) If the person deciding to fire someone is also who decided to hire him/her, then they need to step back and learn to not make the same mistake twice.
Phillip Rhodes

Sure, sit and talk with “problem” employees as long as you
understand that the need for improvement is as likely to like with
management as it is with the employee. Shitty morale because of
management political shenanigans, lack of engagement because nobody
bothers to share the big picture or any information about what’s going
on, or boredom because the employee’s skills aren’t actually being
utilized, are all management fails which can look like an employee
problem. If management is going to criticize a “problem” employee, they
better be prepared to look in the mirror a little as well.

Also, before you fire someone, make sure you actually understand the value they add to the company… which **may not** actually match their job title! Some people are knowledge brokers, or “fix it guys” who do the odd jobs that no one else does, etc. It’s entirely possible that these are actually very valuable contributors, even if what they contribute doesn’t match what you think they should be doing. Understand this, and consider making them a new position, before just axing them.
Anonymous

Most of the firings I’ve had to do over the years; I blamed myself for not making the right hire in the first place.

Many startups just need warm bodies and sometimes the enticement of a lower paid employee (or all stock) can make ‘any’ hire attractive.

I’ve learned that many times, it’s just not a good fit. And that’s how I fire people now; using the word ‘we;. We aren’t a good fit for each other.

I can usually tell in the first 30 days if they are going to be a good fit.

I hire on 3 requirements only: Can you do the job (do you have the skillset); Will you do the job (I can’t stand complacency or outright laziness and friends sometimes take advantage); Will you fit in?

We all make bad hires for a multitude of reasons. I cut to the chase quickly because it’s my money or investors money on the line.

I hate firing so I try to at least have a heart so I usually end it with…good luck at your next job. I then get up and leave ( I never do this in my own office. I had a girl sit there and cry for an hour one time. Very uncomfortable.)

I’ve also held on to poor performers…or bad attitudes. Number one reason you should get rid of them. Bad attitudes spread like the plague. It’s difficult enough to keep smiling when things are tough; I just don’t need ‘negative nellies.’

Final note. Do it and do it quick. The termination shouldn’t last more than 30 seconds. You have a business to run. Regardless of the reason; lack of funds, poor performers etc; you’ll breathe a sign of relief when it’s over.

Some days I wonder if I should just fire myself.
http://www.facebook.com/witt.jeff Jeff Witt

Your message and the recent story on NPR regarding the culture of failure in Silicon Valley make me wonder why the “we’ll pay you $3000 to quit” isn’t standard practice with startups.

Does that scheme actually work to promote more optimal separation of bad-fit employees? Would it help to recruit better employees if every new hire knew there would be at least a $3000 minimal parachute if the company crashes?

I am interested in trying this experiment with my next project. Does anyone have a copy of the Zappos employment contract or anything similar?
Antony Van Couvering

Frankly there’s a lot of self-serving reasoning going on here, e.g. it’s probably beneficial to them. Maybe that’s true, but if you really cared about that you’d solicit their opinion on whether they’d like to be fired.

I’ve fired quite a few people (maybe 10) and people, you’re not doing them a favor. You’re hitting them in the teeth. Maybe they deserve, it maybe they don’t, but you’re doing it for your reasons, not theirs.

Make sure that people understand that you’re firing them because that’s what the company requires, not because you think “it’s the right thing for both of us” or something similar. There’s no point in being a hypocrite – everyone can see through it and if people think you’re being a sniveling weasel they’re much more likely to try and get revenge. Just tell people you had to make some choices and the way it worked out is that you decided you needed to fire them.

And if you really think it’s your fault for making a bad hiring decision, how about owning that and offering a larger severance? Otherwise, skip the “it’s not you, it’s me” horseshit.

http://twitter.com/antonywu Antony Wu

Your response is too blanket, assuming that all employees know what they want in their career without any little pushes from their employers. In tech world, especially within corporate, money is a good reason for slackers to stick around. In that sense, you are doing them a favor by shoving them out and encouraging them to find their own path.

Frankly, as an employer, I never enjoyed working with people whose sole motivation is money. If so, they should get out, and choose a different career. But if they don’t, I will make them.

At the end of the day, whatever reasons you have for firing someone. Make peace and move on. There is need for “horseshit” comment
http://www.justanentrepreneur.com Philip Sugar

I agree with you completely and have written about that. It is best for both of us is a total bullshit attitude.

For those that “bounce down” is that best for them??? Hell no.

No its not. It is best for the company, and that is what is important.

I also agree with the person that said take 30 seconds.

I also agree with the person that said it could actually be a mistake if you are working at a big company and a Consultant tells the BOD we should outsource this, and the CEO tells the VP cut staff and the Director says cut staff to the Manager and the Manager plays favorites. Why I would never want to work at BigCo.

If you are producing 5% of the output at a small company do you think you will ever get fired unless you are toxic?? Hell no.

http://melle.ca Melanie Baker

One thing that’s been alluded to in a handful of comments, which can’t be overstated, is just how fast the toxins can spread in a small company or startup when someone remains there who should be fired. Whether it’s incompetence, failure to get the job done, attitude, or what have you, the other employees *know* that that person needs to go, and will resent it. (And rarely do they speak up as directly as is needed.) This poisons morale, productivity, and respect for management’s ability to make decisions and act quickly and decisively. Sure, in some big, institutional companies, people can coast for years, but small companies don’t have that “luxury”, and can’t afford any deadwood (or, worse, active sabotage of one sort or another).

http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

Agree. I’ve been surprised how often the person getting fired suspects it might happen and other employees aren’t surprised and are relieved when it happens.

http://www.victusspiritus.com/ Mark Essel

As a founder, have you ever considered firing yourself because it’s best for the team/young organization?

http://www.aaronklein.com/ Aaron Klein

If you haven’t considered it at some point, you’re not a real founder.

http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

Agree.

http://hirethoughts.blogspot.com/ Donna Brewington White

Great post. Firing well is an art.

I often see the other side of firing. Talking to candidates who have been fired, I see so many different responses. I tell a lot about a person based on that response.

The one thing I’d say to founders is to own your responsibility for the firing. If you made a mistake in hiring the person or even managing the person, admit it. Being fired is a devastating enough experience as it is without having to carry unfair responsibility. Take that load off the person’s shoulders. But only if it is true. Padding the truth or trying to protect the person’s feelings removes the opportunity to grow. It is an insult to the person’s intelligence.

The worst thing for the person fired is walking away wondering, “What the hell just happened?” It might not be a bad idea to contact the person at a later date if your realization of your complicity comes after-the-fact.

http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

I agree founders should do it (for companies small enough where the founders know everyone – otherwise the manager the person reports to is probably best).

http://arnoldwaldstein.com/ awaldstein

Firing people sucks generally.

You learn to do it without emotion.

You can build lists of why it’s good. Why you should do it early. Why it’s good for the person. Why it’s positive for the team.

All true. Still it’s a bad meeting when you have to do it even if it’s extremely positive in it’s results.

Firing someone who is a bad fit is one thing. Closing down companies or major reductions in staff is worse. This is not about fit or skills. Just circumstance.

Layoffs are more difficult that firing the wrong hire.

I’ve done it a bunch of times. I’ll probably do it again but I don’t think glamorizing it helps even if it does indeed help the company.

http://www.cdixon.org/ chris dixon

I had many made dreams about shutting down my startups. Thankfully it never happened but that is one of the thoughts that motivates many entrepreneurs.
http://www.justanentrepreneur.com Philip Sugar

I don’t know having done turnarounds I think it is easier when there is an external reason. Still don’t like it but I thought it was easier, maybe because I was brought in from the outside. I do vividly remember calling a person in my office to speak (not to get fired) and three seconds in she asked if I was going to fire her. I said no and three minutes later she asked again, and again 15 minutes in. I remember thinking wow people must really not like or trust me.

I think it is harder when you say you are off the boat.

People should share their worst stories. Mine was when a guy I fired wife came in the next day and gave me a personalized blanket she had knit for my newborn and was waiting to give me. He bounced up and did great at a BigCo as an internal resource but it certainly was not best for both of us that day.

http://arnoldwaldstein.com/ awaldstein

Nothing to compare to that.

In more than one instance though, I’ve had individuals who just won’t hear what I”m saying. Not being able to internalize that at that moment, everything changed and economics were put on a code red state in their lives.

Kind of like telling someone in physical shock that yes, you had just severed their arm.

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http://www.davidmcohen.com/ David Cohen

Well put. So who fires a founder who is also an executive?
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